Another Monday come and gone...
Jun. 28th, 2005 12:42 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
silveradept...and like magic, the problems I thought I had might not continue to exist. We'll see how all of this plays out, but there's a possibility that I might not be a jobless guy for the next two months. Again, we'll keep ya posted. Until then, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
blacktigr alerted me to a building that would make Dr. Seuss (or perhaps M.C. Escher) proud: the Ray and Maria Stata Center. This, on top of the "hacker" culture at MIT tells me that anybody who works with MIT has a sense of humor. Possibly as a necessary safety valve.
You know, I thought that my identity and my credit were likely to be safe... but after reading an article telling how much black market commerce there is with stolen data, I suppose I should just be praying that whomever plays with my identity doesn't do too much damage with it. 'Cuz I like my name and stuff, and so I'd want to visit Erisian Wrath on anybody who grabbed it and did stuff in my name and screwed things up for me. Yeah. Not so happy about something like that, if it were to happen (assuming it hasn't, already). Maybe I'll hire a 'net version of this guardian mecha robot to keep my data safe.
The following statement is true: Felix are classified as liquids. Calvin was absolutely right. Beyond that, anybody who's stuck around and been brave enough to click a few links knows that I draw from many sources for my amusement, my inspiration, and a little bit of flat-out rant and rage. I like putting things in contrast, floating one good against one bad where I can. J. Brad Hicks does this a bit himself in showing off two related but not concepts: The Funeral Evangelizer and the Christian Alliance for Progress. Sitting on pretty opposite ends of the spectrum, those two are.
Maybe I should substitute out the Evangelizer with the account of Zach. This is probably another one of those things that's flown across the internet and to some degree the news. It's been called gospel truth and quackery, so read with your own discerning eyes. The premise is that Zach, currently a minor, decided that it would be good on his psyche to tell his parents of his homosexual orientation. However, rather than a loving embrace and a promise of support, Zach was sent off to a place that claimed to be able to turn the young man back to a straight orientation through the power of the Christian religion and considerable isolation from the outside world. I am reminded of stories of offshore "discipline schools" or such that promises to turn misbehaving children into upstanding models of society through much the same methods, although not necessarily with the religious veneer. It would appear the two have considerable similarities.
Supposedly, Zach was able to obtain the rules of the engagement that he was about to be sent to and posted them to his blog before being shipped off to the re-education camp. There has not been much for posting, of course, while he is at the camp - outside world contact is prohibited, as is the act of journaling. I do not know from which source I drew that he may have had an extension added onto his stay, but he may be there for quite a bit longer than his initial stay. The link is to the front page of his blog on Myspace - within the last five entries are supposedly the rules of his engagement. Zach's page. His treatment has drawn the attention of more than a few people, who have banded together to sign their names to an on-line petition, which you may do so at this link. I have also heard it floated about that there is a Los Angeles Times article the refers to this situation - anyone with a non-registration link, please let me know.
The gravity of the situation may be augmented by a quote attributed to the founder of the organization running the ex-gay school: "I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." - Reverend John Smid. Sounds like martyrdom talk to me, since that's usually what they're praised for - death. That's what he's banking on, anyway, but much like the Funeral Evangelizer, he's probably fooling himself into believing it. I suspect that President Bush would give this man a hearty handshake if the two of them met.
Strangely enough, this leads into a possibly silly, possibly more introspective line of thought for me tonight - the subject matter, however, references things that are NC-17. Those of you with weak constitutions or Moral Imperatives preventing you from reading further in good conscience, you may stop now and be assured that you have not missed anything of importance. There will also probably be a cut, but for length rather than subjected matter. I take up enough room on your friends' lists as it is.
There are objections to the way that camp is being run on principle that I have, but even if you wiggle past those with one reason or another, I'm going to suggest that these people are going at it the wrong way. Rather than deprive someone of outside world contact and force them into a religious notion of piety or correct behavior, it would be far more effective to replace one behavior with another. The most effective way that I can think of to turn someone to another sexual orientation is pornography of that orientation type. Yep, porn is probably a more effective behavioral mod than deprivation. If you can add to that porn the suggestion, one way or another, that the subject enjoys viewing this kind of material and is attracted to the opposite sex, then you have a chance of succeeding. Where the religious types use shame to try and get someone to change, the porn method waits for the body to admit that it has an attraction - and in straight porn, so long as at least one of the two is attractive, you'll probably get a reaction. Then it's just a matter of social conditioning to get them to believe that the reaction they're getting is from the opposite sex member, not the same-sex one. Surround the treatment candidate with attractive members of the opposite sex and reduce tse's contact with members of the same sex - bonuses if you can get all the same-sex members to be people the candidate finds unattractive. If you keep pushing that idea at them, they may convert, or at least admit to a latent bisexuality. From there, they can appear normal while still being kinky.
There are holes in this plot, of course, like the assumption that being attracted to one gender or another is a matter of choice and conditioning, not something innate. But since I'm working on much the same grounds as the religious types, that's an assumption that is made. Plus, there's always a chance of reversion, especially if they see a particularly sexy member of their own gender and the conditioning isn't planted firmly enough. It might be more like one is a "recovering homosexual", if you will. But that's the plan I have, if one really wanted to try and set someone straight. Lots of psychological handwaving and a steady diet of pornography. I think it has a shot of working. If I could get around the NC-17 nature of the program.
Of course, when alleged prostitutes face $1 billion (U.S.) bail costs, the idea has about as much of a chance of a flame in the Ninth Circle of Dante's Hell of working. Eighth Amendment? Nah, not here.
That said, I do not condone the idea that someone can, and should, be forced into an orientation because of Moral Imperatives of the parents, or to save face, or any other hundred-thousand myriad reasons. People allowed to develop according to their own pace, with guidance and well-thought restriction from parents and those charged with the person's education will do better than those who are closed off from the world around them. I have several friends who are of various fandoms, orientations, and political beliefs. Their diversity enriches my life experience and provides me with more material with which to build and analyze my life. Without them, it would be a much bleaker and less interesting world. This is what places should be striving for when they swing about the word "diversity" - diversity of ideas, rather than of characteristics. The Song of the Suburbs is definitely built on this diversity.
Idly, and a potentially jarring thing, for those of you who have and haven't met me in person, what gender do I write like? Meaning that if you had no clue (or still do) as to which gender the person at the keyboard is, what would you guess I was? And could you say why or what part about my writing draws you toward that conclusion?
blacktigr alerted me to a building that would make Dr. Seuss (or perhaps M.C. Escher) proud: the Ray and Maria Stata Center. This, on top of the "hacker" culture at MIT tells me that anybody who works with MIT has a sense of humor. Possibly as a necessary safety valve.You know, I thought that my identity and my credit were likely to be safe... but after reading an article telling how much black market commerce there is with stolen data, I suppose I should just be praying that whomever plays with my identity doesn't do too much damage with it. 'Cuz I like my name and stuff, and so I'd want to visit Erisian Wrath on anybody who grabbed it and did stuff in my name and screwed things up for me. Yeah. Not so happy about something like that, if it were to happen (assuming it hasn't, already). Maybe I'll hire a 'net version of this guardian mecha robot to keep my data safe.
The following statement is true: Felix are classified as liquids. Calvin was absolutely right. Beyond that, anybody who's stuck around and been brave enough to click a few links knows that I draw from many sources for my amusement, my inspiration, and a little bit of flat-out rant and rage. I like putting things in contrast, floating one good against one bad where I can. J. Brad Hicks does this a bit himself in showing off two related but not concepts: The Funeral Evangelizer and the Christian Alliance for Progress. Sitting on pretty opposite ends of the spectrum, those two are.
Maybe I should substitute out the Evangelizer with the account of Zach. This is probably another one of those things that's flown across the internet and to some degree the news. It's been called gospel truth and quackery, so read with your own discerning eyes. The premise is that Zach, currently a minor, decided that it would be good on his psyche to tell his parents of his homosexual orientation. However, rather than a loving embrace and a promise of support, Zach was sent off to a place that claimed to be able to turn the young man back to a straight orientation through the power of the Christian religion and considerable isolation from the outside world. I am reminded of stories of offshore "discipline schools" or such that promises to turn misbehaving children into upstanding models of society through much the same methods, although not necessarily with the religious veneer. It would appear the two have considerable similarities.
Supposedly, Zach was able to obtain the rules of the engagement that he was about to be sent to and posted them to his blog before being shipped off to the re-education camp. There has not been much for posting, of course, while he is at the camp - outside world contact is prohibited, as is the act of journaling. I do not know from which source I drew that he may have had an extension added onto his stay, but he may be there for quite a bit longer than his initial stay. The link is to the front page of his blog on Myspace - within the last five entries are supposedly the rules of his engagement. Zach's page. His treatment has drawn the attention of more than a few people, who have banded together to sign their names to an on-line petition, which you may do so at this link. I have also heard it floated about that there is a Los Angeles Times article the refers to this situation - anyone with a non-registration link, please let me know.
The gravity of the situation may be augmented by a quote attributed to the founder of the organization running the ex-gay school: "I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery." - Reverend John Smid. Sounds like martyrdom talk to me, since that's usually what they're praised for - death. That's what he's banking on, anyway, but much like the Funeral Evangelizer, he's probably fooling himself into believing it. I suspect that President Bush would give this man a hearty handshake if the two of them met.
Strangely enough, this leads into a possibly silly, possibly more introspective line of thought for me tonight - the subject matter, however, references things that are NC-17. Those of you with weak constitutions or Moral Imperatives preventing you from reading further in good conscience, you may stop now and be assured that you have not missed anything of importance. There will also probably be a cut, but for length rather than subjected matter. I take up enough room on your friends' lists as it is.
There are objections to the way that camp is being run on principle that I have, but even if you wiggle past those with one reason or another, I'm going to suggest that these people are going at it the wrong way. Rather than deprive someone of outside world contact and force them into a religious notion of piety or correct behavior, it would be far more effective to replace one behavior with another. The most effective way that I can think of to turn someone to another sexual orientation is pornography of that orientation type. Yep, porn is probably a more effective behavioral mod than deprivation. If you can add to that porn the suggestion, one way or another, that the subject enjoys viewing this kind of material and is attracted to the opposite sex, then you have a chance of succeeding. Where the religious types use shame to try and get someone to change, the porn method waits for the body to admit that it has an attraction - and in straight porn, so long as at least one of the two is attractive, you'll probably get a reaction. Then it's just a matter of social conditioning to get them to believe that the reaction they're getting is from the opposite sex member, not the same-sex one. Surround the treatment candidate with attractive members of the opposite sex and reduce tse's contact with members of the same sex - bonuses if you can get all the same-sex members to be people the candidate finds unattractive. If you keep pushing that idea at them, they may convert, or at least admit to a latent bisexuality. From there, they can appear normal while still being kinky.
There are holes in this plot, of course, like the assumption that being attracted to one gender or another is a matter of choice and conditioning, not something innate. But since I'm working on much the same grounds as the religious types, that's an assumption that is made. Plus, there's always a chance of reversion, especially if they see a particularly sexy member of their own gender and the conditioning isn't planted firmly enough. It might be more like one is a "recovering homosexual", if you will. But that's the plan I have, if one really wanted to try and set someone straight. Lots of psychological handwaving and a steady diet of pornography. I think it has a shot of working. If I could get around the NC-17 nature of the program.
Of course, when alleged prostitutes face $1 billion (U.S.) bail costs, the idea has about as much of a chance of a flame in the Ninth Circle of Dante's Hell of working. Eighth Amendment? Nah, not here.
That said, I do not condone the idea that someone can, and should, be forced into an orientation because of Moral Imperatives of the parents, or to save face, or any other hundred-thousand myriad reasons. People allowed to develop according to their own pace, with guidance and well-thought restriction from parents and those charged with the person's education will do better than those who are closed off from the world around them. I have several friends who are of various fandoms, orientations, and political beliefs. Their diversity enriches my life experience and provides me with more material with which to build and analyze my life. Without them, it would be a much bleaker and less interesting world. This is what places should be striving for when they swing about the word "diversity" - diversity of ideas, rather than of characteristics. The Song of the Suburbs is definitely built on this diversity.
Idly, and a potentially jarring thing, for those of you who have and haven't met me in person, what gender do I write like? Meaning that if you had no clue (or still do) as to which gender the person at the keyboard is, what would you guess I was? And could you say why or what part about my writing draws you toward that conclusion?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 05:48 am (UTC)I just looked at the picture, but I think that building is already in existance. I'm pretty sure we saw that when we were staying in Boston with Holly's freinds who took us to MIT to look at them.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 06:23 am (UTC)She looks like she just walked away from a cosplay con. So does the guy standing next to her in fact. You can barely see because of the smoke.
Now either this is because these two people are in costume, or it's a commentary on how I am accostomed to seeing Japaneese people on the internet, not sure which.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 09:24 am (UTC)For some reason I got "female" in my head when you first started commenting in my journal. Sometime later I came across something (probably in your userinfo or people's comment banter) that made me switch my association to "male", but now I can't find what it was and I'm just not so sure either way.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 09:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 10:20 am (UTC)Which I would argue is a pretty damn big hole. Even without the possible genetic influence, there are plenty of other possibilities beyond psychological explanations, whether scientific or spiritual.
Besides, I always find the moral flailing over homosexuality somewhat amusing, in a depressing way - there's ample evidence from other animal species that bisexual and homosexual behaviour not only happens 'naturally', it may even be fairly common. I strongly suspect its frequency in human beings is higher than it currently is were it not for the effects of forced conditioning or people restricting their sexuality.
what gender do I write like?
I'd say male on the whole, but there is a mix.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 11:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 11:31 am (UTC)Actually that was the building I was talking about when we were in Boston and I wrote about the fact that we were unquestionably in some H.P. Lovecraft story. I'm glad it has a real name and everything, tis cool
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 11:40 am (UTC)When you consider how many guys won't do something simple (like dancing) because they're affraid it would look gay, I'd say they're hiding something. It sounds like a joke, but I really mean it seriously. I think you've hit the nail on the head.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:34 pm (UTC)What about my writing tips you off that way?
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:45 pm (UTC)I know that there are more than a few alternative possibilities as to why people tick the way they do, but since I was taking potshots at the re-education camp, I thought I would try and spite them on their own turf. In the end, it's probably just a mental wank, but it was fun.
I agree with both of you - the rate of something other than Kinsey 0 is probably much higher than reported, or would be higher if there wasn't a social stigma attached to it. I've talked about the assumption-laden phrases like "be a man" before, and that's where most of the fear probably comes from - as if somehow being homosexual makes you less of a wo/man.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:48 pm (UTC)It sounds like social science to me, and as we all know social science usually starts with a desicion and tries to widdle the facts to fit the predestined holes.
It's all about content for me. It's the context, the facts convied, the little pointers here and there.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 12:55 pm (UTC)Oh yeah, deffinatly. (Although you notice I was talking about guys who didn't want to dance and you just said those of US with two left feet. Things like that are tips)
I know you were taking pot shots at them, I was just being agreeable.
I think when people start to talk about what is and isn't natural sexuality wise they dig themselves a huge hole. They start saying that only certian things are natural and usually only things they enjoy. Pretty soon nature's got nothing to do with it, just their personal preferances.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 02:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 02:27 pm (UTC)I think most of them, not all though mind you, have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's all good. I think when you get into any sort of community based around that sort of thing you quickly realize that you've either got to be at least tolerant or you won't last long in the community.
Still "Jesus Wore a Gimp Mask!" Would be an amazing protest sign to see.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 02:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 03:20 pm (UTC)I don't care anymore. I really don't.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 03:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 05:06 pm (UTC)Of course, now I can expect a lawsuit because I didn't clearly warn you bout the addictive properties of the Internet.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 08:19 pm (UTC)On the other hand, the icon influenced my perception when it was just comments, too. I don't know why, but it comes off as very vaguely feminine. Soft visual characteristics, probably, rather than anything concrete about the content. On top of that,, the kodama represent more feminine-ish aspects to a Western mind.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 08:54 pm (UTC)And I suppose the childlike nature of the kodama would appear to give off a more feminine aspect to my nature, but I guess I never really thought of it that way - more as a gender-neutral avatar.
So I guess I really do write both ways. If something like the icon is the "determining factor", then my prose must be very close to the center, indeed.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-29 11:02 pm (UTC)This systematic destruction of a real mind has made me pretty depressed to see. I hate these groups sometimes.
I have given a lot of thought to this orientation thing. I figure, the rools are readilly available to meddle with one's orientation in some ways. Its got to be worth seeing how malleable the mind can get.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-30 12:10 am (UTC)I agree - watching a perfectly normal mind subjected to the pressures of a group like that is painful. That such groups exist is a less painful thought. After all, they could exist so long as they weren't actively spreading themselves...
I suspect the mind is considerably more malleable than we think, exceptionally so with proper hypnotic technique being applied. I suspect one could hypnotise a straight to be gay and vice-versa. But I'm not sure if and for how long the programming would stick.