silveradept: A librarian wearing a futuristic-looking visor with text squiggles on them. (Librarian Techno-Visor)
[personal profile] silveradept
Right up front, I'm going to admit that I have no formal musical training, and so this is mostly a listening experience rather than someone being able to analyze a piece of music and figure out the same sorts of things that a lot of the Into The Spiderverse people.

Also, by the time I'm done, secret identities will have been spoiled pretty thoroughly, so if you don't already know where all the Miraculous are and who has them, the first part may be safe, but the second part definitely won't be.

Also, the links, being that they are related to material under copyright, may vanish at any time, and that's a thing that happens. I'll try to be descriptive, but this is aural, and it's often damn hard to find anyone who is willing to provide backing tracks without sound effect or dialogue put over them.

Now, I admit that I may gently rib Ladybug a bit for its effective re-use of footage, but it's a magical girl show, and transformation reuse is a time-honored tradition of them and the Super Sentai / Kamen Rider genres of tokusatsu shows that are also being drawn on here. And a thing that happens in those shows a lot is that power use is signaled by specific themes coming into being.

I'm working backward from shortest material to longest, but the videos that I can find want to work long to short, because of course they do. So, the first thing that I noticed has to do with the general thematic elements of Ladybug and Chat Noir using their respective "gimmick" powers. Ladybug has the Miraculous of Creation, Chat Noir, the Miraculous of Destruction, and the composer(s) want to make sure we remember this.

Have a listen. Ladybug's Lucky Charm is first, then Chat Noir's Cataclysm. Notice how Ladybug gets the power guitar chords and heroic brass? Lucky Charm starts with the "Miraculous" lick (that will try very hard to earworm you with how much it shows up) and then proceeds in a progression that starts low and lands high? The kind of idea that gives you a feeling of triumph at the end? (I'll bet it's major chords the whole way up, but again, no formal musical training to know.) If you keep listening to that particular linked video, the "capture the akuma and reset everything" theme continues in this vein, although it starts high, drops down for the windup, and then gets back there and higher by the time the butterfly has been purified.

For Chat Noir, on the other hand, while the general pitch of Cataclysm goes up, it's a series of disparate chords on strings and percussion that all walk down from their initial pitch, and it ends on the Miraculous lick, almost as an afterthought to remind us that this is a hero using their power. (I have a sneaking suspicion each progression also lands on a minor chord, if they aren't all minors to start with.)

Why is this important? Well, for people trained in a European-descended musical tradition, major chords are for heroes, minor chords are for villains. Usually. Minor chords carry the power of transforming a situation into something that doesn't feel right and that deserves attention. Most of the "spooky/scary" type pieces, or songs that have a bridge in them where you realize that not everything in this song's world is a good thing (or that introduces an alternate point of view or interpretation) often use their minor chords to good effect. (Also, power ballads are mostly major chords, which is what makes them so singable and empowering, right?)

Chat Noir's Cataclysm is the power of destruction. That would normally be the province of the villain, and so he gets the scoring for it when he uses it.

These motifs of powers also figure into the transformation music for each of the characters as well. The next video, however, is spoiler city if you don't already know the secret identities of all the known Miraculous holders, just saying.

Take a listen through each of the transformation sequences in their Season 1 and 2 variations. Several of the "Alternate" marked variations are taken from the episode "Catalyst", which has some specific variations to itself. Season 1 is mostly scored differently, since it is Ladybug and Chat Noir doing the transforming.

I'll be talking about the themes in the order of the video, at least until they get to the animatic and Promotional Video versions, which are generally the same or are just the PV background theme.

  • Ladybug: There's a few hits, but the theme itself really starts with the "windup" sound that happens right before launching into the dance beat / power chords variations on the Miraculous lick. (Which, by the way, anything that ends with the Miraculous lick is already primed for immediate segue into Lucky Charm, if it should ever be needed.) Most of the variations that you'l hear on this theme are related to key and speed of the song, but the basic version doesn't change.

  • Chat Noir: I find it interesting that Chat Noir gets a quicker-tempo transformation theme. The beat pattern underneath it could be described as a gallop, as if Chat Noir just wants to get this transformation thing done and over with already. [personal profile] alexseanchai has said that Adrien has been practicing for needing to do a transformation pose or two all his life, and the scoring definitely helps that idea along - he knows that you have to go through the motions, but he already has it down so well that he's ready to move on to the next thing.

    But notice that Chat's guitar sounds different (possibly from being strung with a different materials), but also that when the five-note sequences happen, they end lower than when they started, and I suspect they're on minor chords again. Heroic instruments moving in a hero direction, but punctuated with the fact that his power would be very easy to turn villanous. (And Chat Noir ends up getting depicted or controlled to villainy much more than Marinette does, to make it easy for us to see how his powers could go terribly wrong in the wrong hands.) Chat's variations are like Ladybug's - they change tempo and maybe key a bit, but they basically stay the same.

  • Rena Rouge: Of course there's a flute in the background playing arpeggios, because that's her weapon of choice, but what's interesting about this is that Rena Rouge's pattern sounds like it should be straightforward to understand. It's not Ladybug's dance-pop, Chat Noir's happy trip-hop, or Carapace's scratch-funk (or his "Ninja Turtles" style). And really, most of it is the same variation on the "Miraculous" lick with a key change. Which is funny, because Rena's got the power of illusions at her command. It makes sense that her seemingly simple and straightforward theme hides a few tricks in the second part of her drum pattern. Queen Bee's beat pattern is the closest to Rena's that we get, but Queen Bee doesn't pick up the extra bass kicks that Rena does, which makes Rena's theme a more complex item to listen to on a second pass.

  • Carapace: This one highlights the fact that Carapace's user is a scratch-heavy DJ, and so we get obviously synth instruments repeating a groove not out of place for any hip-hop emcee to rap over, as the character does a breakdance routine before pulling up a hood over their head to complete the look. It sounds out of place in the sense that it's not in the same genre or groove as the other themes around, but then again, this is also supposed to be the Tortoise Miraculous, so I think the composer is also having a little fun with us about how quickly tortoises move.

    The Catalyst version above I see marked as the "alternate" version, since this is the second time Carapace transforms. The first transformation fits a little bit better thematically with the others, with a brass style that's almost a shout chorus over the beat. It really strongly reminds me of the idea of the first (not-comedic) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, that wants to invoke an action-movie feel in a reduced color-palette world. I'm not sure which version I like better, actually.

  • Queen Bee: Remember that part above with Chat Noir where I talk about descending musical lines, dissonance, a different guitar sound, and leaning into the minor keys as generally signs that the character in question is not entirely heroic? Queen Bee basically takes that as her theme and owns it. (Unsurprising, given her civilian identity.) The clues to her being on the side of the heroes has much more to do with her instrumentation and that her piece is up-tempo rather than anything that has to do with the notes played. (I really wonder what her transformation song would sound like with the guitar riffs reversed.)

    Also interestingly, her transformation theme is the only one with deliberate silence in the drums instead of a break or a fill at the transition point between theme and ending lick, and it's that break that throws me off. I'm used to expecting the silence at the midpoint of a theme, as a transition before the theme repeats, but in Queen Bee's case, it's used as the transition to the outro, and that makes it feel shorter than the others, because the others use drum fills or changes to signal their shifts to the outro. Yes, even Hawkmoth. And speaking thereof...

  • Hawkmoth: Note the heavy drums, the organ, and the choir hits? Classic villain scoring. And a whole mess of minor and dissonant material, I'm betting, too. He's scored unmistakably as an evil dude, and also as a Big Bad type of person, rather than a less powerful villain. (This is variation three, the ":Catalyst" scoring on Hawk Moth, and I think it's the one that works best for him, as the others don't quite find their footing appropriately to express to someone who doesn't know who Hawk Moth is that he's a Bad Guy. For example, this variation has the disturbing organ part down, but it lacks the drums and the choir hits for emphasis.)

  • It will be interesting to hear how the Peacock Miraculous scores for transformation when it's used and who it's used by. Given that we don't yet have that (at least as of the time of this post), I guess we'll have to wait for something else.


Anyway, that's my un-music-theoried thoughts about the use of licks and motifs in Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir. The reality is probably very different than what I've laid out here. *shrug*
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-01-30 07:05 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
I vote you go link this on [community profile] allthemiraculous and [community profile] fictional_fans :)

now to listen and figure out if I can actually pick out any of the bits you point out

ETA: mostly!
Edited Date: 2019-01-30 07:13 am (UTC)
Depth: 3

Date: 2019-01-30 10:08 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
Would it help if I went over there all HEY CHECK THIS OUT (linked with permission)?
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-01-30 09:16 am (UTC)
marahmarie: (M In M Forever) (Default)
From: [personal profile] marahmarie
Just a thought on "no formal music training": me neither, but they taught me to read sheet music (with notes like these ♪) in elementary school and I still have a bare-bones recollection of it now.

Anyhow, one day about a year ago I *had* to know if Pearl Jam ripped off Elton John for one song I liked so managed to look up the sheet music online and do comparisons before realizing I could just google the question for the answer (they didn't, and yes, sometimes my brain works this inefficiently). But comparing the sheet music, they came rather close.

It was sort of fun listening to the songs in question while reading the sheet music so I'd recommend trying it to others who want to get a little further with any sort of music exploration.
Edited (clarity) Date: 2019-01-30 09:20 am (UTC)
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-01-31 02:41 am (UTC)
staranise: A star anise floating in a cup of mint tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] staranise
This is fun! And reminding me that I should finish watching S2.
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-02-13 04:11 am (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
I find it a little telling and a lot haunting whenever the 'purify the akuma and release it' music plays. That's minor all the way, and that fits with Ladybug's "Bye bye little butterfly" line, and though I know it's intended to be a quiet sort of triumph, it comes across as as much melancholy as anything. Just me?

I cannot *wait* to find out what the peacock miraculous gets as a connected transformation sequence, though admittedly I'm also a little nervous...? I'm swiftly becoming a big fan of Duusu, and I'm loving the powers we've glimpsed for the peacock. I have a lapful of headcanon for Duusu's character (ahem, bad me, I know) so I'm reeeeeally hoping my initial warm fuzzy impressions last... My ideal transformation theme for this particular miraculous would be... if you've ever heard "Not Alone" by Olive, the opening to that song comes close. Someone once described it as twirly goth. Relatively up tempo, a hip hop beat on the edge of dance, and minor chords again, but wistful, not evil.

Anybody else curious what Sass's theme might be, if he ends up active outside the miracle box? I hope they don't play too heavily on the slithery nature of snakes thing...
Depth: 3

Date: 2019-02-13 07:14 am (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
The bits underneath the choruses are exactly what I was getting at with "Not Alone," yep. :) Mysterious and a little wistful, but so very far from evil, which IMO fits with the peacock's power set as shown so far... never mind just who the holder was assisting, ahem. Speaking of, I suspect we're on the same page as far as who the previous holder was, but I'm not sure the, er, current/momentary holder is going to keep the fully functional miraculous once it's (hopefully) repaired. At least, I hope not. I'm holding out for the previous suspected holder getting it back, unlikely though hints (monkey's paw wish) laid throughout the series make that sound... Ah heck, who am I kidding, I'd totally watch an episode or more in flashback of that person and Duusu, years prior to current series timeline, somehow under Wayzz and Master Fu's combined radar as night-flying protection of the vulnerable of Paris. But then, a certain other person would obviously have to get wind of it, and that would likely go badly indeed, potentially leading to whatever happened to...

This avoiding spoilerific commenting thing is darn tricky! And the above musing turned into half a self-insert at speed. Whoops.

I can see a variation close to Carapace's theme, if not a complete match, working for Sass powering a transformation. Then again, Sass read as a bit snarky and less introspective and mellow than Wayzz, so a more upbeat theme could be part of the difference. Some of it may well depend on who his chosen turns out to be, see also Rena Rouge and the flute, Carapace as a scratch DJ, as you pointed out above.
Depth: 5

Date: 2019-02-14 02:36 am (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
Unless the problem(s) with the previous holder can't be fixed (monkey's paw wish), but I'm not entirely discounting the possibility that things aren't quite that dire. As for being for or against Hawkmoth, I'm going to hazard a guess at against, and throw in my two cents that that dynamic already exists, and is as old as Hawkmoth's demonstrated capacity for evil/cruelty/coldness, whenever that showed plainly. If the previous holder is who we're both hinting it is, loyalty maintains, but to whom? And could that have been the cause of the current situation? If it was, it speaks *volumes* about Hawkmoth's capacity for cold fury... and an obsessive sort of remorse that's halfway to not qualifying for the name at all, really.

We're talking subtle circles around all the names here, aren't we? XD

Now I'm darn curious who you think's going to end up Sass's chosen! The closest fit I can come up with is honestly probably a better fit for a dragon kwami, and the likely suspect given the usual snake tropes doesn't fit with Sass; he doesn't seem like a jerk, where the most slimy slithery of the possibilities reeeeeeally is. I'm betting the slithery possibility is *not* going to end up with a miraculous anyway. That evil ship has sailed.
Depth: 6

Date: 2019-02-14 04:26 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
Re Sass, fandom has opinions. These opinions may be based on spoilers for not yet aired episodes; I haven't investigated. These opinions also contradict. So I have no clue.

Re the rest of it: ooooh. :D
Depth: 7

Date: 2019-02-14 06:41 am (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
Re Sass's potential chosen: I think we're on a similar page here, and your arguments are quite persuasive! Plus, that particular possible chosen might find a balance in the somewhat more easygoing Sass. For a given value of easygoing.

Re situations: Or if Hawkmoth otherwise harmed Paon Bleu's family, or came close to doing so, with or without powers in play. I can absolutely see Paon Bleu and Duusu stepping in then, perhaps more than once, without a flinch from either. And Hawkmoth may not be entirely without compassion, but there's little denying he's both capable of great cruelty and in possession of a quick, cold-burning temper. Make of that what you will.

My burgeoning headcanon of Paon Bleu as battered but unbroken night-flyer is getting aaaaaall the heck over these comments. Oops.
Edited Date: 2019-02-14 06:42 am (UTC)
Depth: 9

Date: 2019-02-15 04:15 am (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
Re Sass's potential holder(s): Now you've got me considering two possibilities here! One is, I suspect, who you were suggesting initially, and that person does have some more Slytherin-typical traits. The second is closer to Gryffindor, but the competitive edge fits, and your reference to transgressive arts in the wild got me thinking. Then again, the second possibility is an even better match for a dragon kwami than who I'd first considered, as ferociously protective of their own is oh so very their canonical jam.

I just need to darn well DM you or something, eh? :)

Re Mayura: I'm going with a little from column B, a little from column C here. Mayura/Catalyst is something like family, but also clearly an aspect in Hawkmoth's plans... if not as Mayura. And I wonder if the line between appreciation of devotion and affection... may not register as clearly for Hawkmoth as it might for other people? That'd mark a difference between he and Paon Bleu, at least as I imagine them, and oooooh would that cause a rift at speed once the difference was plain. Situations, again.

Re Paon Bleu the night-flying protector: See my journal, now that I've seen the newest canon episode. FLAILing! It still fits. The entry immediately before my flail fest... is just me being a nerd who loves what words do sometimes. *slightly sheepish, which is in itself a win*
Depth: 11

Date: 2019-02-15 05:16 pm (UTC)
chanter1944: a blue-shaded dyed egg (not enough blue in the world)
From: [personal profile] chanter1944
I’ll DM you when I’m home from work, re names and motivations. 🐞🦋🐍 If there’s a peafowl emoji, I can’t find it. Boo.
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-06-10 02:01 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
I'm curious how Ladybug's water transformation and Ladybug and Chat Noir's ice transformations—I don't think we've seen Chat Noir's water transformation yet, they haven't used any of the others, and the other heroes haven't got any upgrades at all—compare in these terms.
Depth: 2

Date: 2019-06-10 02:12 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
Catalyst video removed by the user, btw (also: wrong-word error). Usable link for your purposes?
Depth: 1

Date: 2019-09-03 08:25 pm (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
okay now once you have seen "Reflekdoll"…

*big pleading eyes*
Depth: 3

Date: 2019-09-04 04:49 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
there are three new transformation sequences and two new spellcasting sequences to analyze, yes? 😺?
Depth: 5

Date: 2019-09-04 05:18 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
yes the visuals are v interesting there

so it is the same audio, I wasn't imagining it? or is it almost the same audio and I didn't pick up any crossover?
Depth: 1

Date: 2020-04-21 02:03 am (UTC)
alexseanchai: Katsuki Yuuri wearing a blue jacket and his glasses and holding a poodle, in front of the asexual pride flag with a rainbow heart inset. (Default)
From: [personal profile] alexseanchai
first link deded

official channel probably will not deded. twenty transformation videos. Lucky Charm, and I'm having trouble finding an official-channel clip with Cataclysm in but the audio for both is here unofficially

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silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
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