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Right up front, I'm going to admit that I have no formal musical training, and so this is mostly a listening experience rather than someone being able to analyze a piece of music and figure out the same sorts of things that a lot of the Into The Spiderverse people.
Also, by the time I'm done, secret identities will have been spoiled pretty thoroughly, so if you don't already know where all the Miraculous are and who has them, the first part may be safe, but the second part definitely won't be.
Also, the links, being that they are related to material under copyright, may vanish at any time, and that's a thing that happens. I'll try to be descriptive, but this is aural, and it's often damn hard to find anyone who is willing to provide backing tracks without sound effect or dialogue put over them.
Now, I admit that I may gently rib Ladybug a bit for its effective re-use of footage, but it's a magical girl show, and transformation reuse is a time-honored tradition of them and the Super Sentai / Kamen Rider genres of tokusatsu shows that are also being drawn on here. And a thing that happens in those shows a lot is that power use is signaled by specific themes coming into being.
I'm working backward from shortest material to longest, but the videos that I can find want to work long to short, because of course they do. So, the first thing that I noticed has to do with the general thematic elements of Ladybug and Chat Noir using their respective "gimmick" powers. Ladybug has the Miraculous of Creation, Chat Noir, the Miraculous of Destruction, and the composer(s) want to make sure we remember this.
Have a listen. Ladybug's Lucky Charm is first, then Chat Noir's Cataclysm. Notice how Ladybug gets the power guitar chords and heroic brass? Lucky Charm starts with the "Miraculous" lick (that will try very hard to earworm you with how much it shows up) and then proceeds in a progression that starts low and lands high? The kind of idea that gives you a feeling of triumph at the end? (I'll bet it's major chords the whole way up, but again, no formal musical training to know.) If you keep listening to that particular linked video, the "capture the akuma and reset everything" theme continues in this vein, although it starts high, drops down for the windup, and then gets back there and higher by the time the butterfly has been purified.
For Chat Noir, on the other hand, while the general pitch of Cataclysm goes up, it's a series of disparate chords on strings and percussion that all walk down from their initial pitch, and it ends on the Miraculous lick, almost as an afterthought to remind us that this is a hero using their power. (I have a sneaking suspicion each progression also lands on a minor chord, if they aren't all minors to start with.)
Why is this important? Well, for people trained in a European-descended musical tradition, major chords are for heroes, minor chords are for villains. Usually. Minor chords carry the power of transforming a situation into something that doesn't feel right and that deserves attention. Most of the "spooky/scary" type pieces, or songs that have a bridge in them where you realize that not everything in this song's world is a good thing (or that introduces an alternate point of view or interpretation) often use their minor chords to good effect. (Also, power ballads are mostly major chords, which is what makes them so singable and empowering, right?)
Chat Noir's Cataclysm is the power of destruction. That would normally be the province of the villain, and so he gets the scoring for it when he uses it.
These motifs of powers also figure into the transformation music for each of the characters as well. The next video, however, is spoiler city if you don't already know the secret identities of all the known Miraculous holders, just saying.
Take a listen through each of the transformation sequences in their Season 1 and 2 variations. Several of the "Alternate" marked variations are taken from the episode "Catalyst", which has some specific variations to itself. Season 1 is mostly scored differently, since it is Ladybug and Chat Noir doing the transforming.
I'll be talking about the themes in the order of the video, at least until they get to the animatic and Promotional Video versions, which are generally the same or are just the PV background theme.
Anyway, that's my un-music-theoried thoughts about the use of licks and motifs in Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir. The reality is probably very different than what I've laid out here. *shrug*
Also, by the time I'm done, secret identities will have been spoiled pretty thoroughly, so if you don't already know where all the Miraculous are and who has them, the first part may be safe, but the second part definitely won't be.
Also, the links, being that they are related to material under copyright, may vanish at any time, and that's a thing that happens. I'll try to be descriptive, but this is aural, and it's often damn hard to find anyone who is willing to provide backing tracks without sound effect or dialogue put over them.
Now, I admit that I may gently rib Ladybug a bit for its effective re-use of footage, but it's a magical girl show, and transformation reuse is a time-honored tradition of them and the Super Sentai / Kamen Rider genres of tokusatsu shows that are also being drawn on here. And a thing that happens in those shows a lot is that power use is signaled by specific themes coming into being.
I'm working backward from shortest material to longest, but the videos that I can find want to work long to short, because of course they do. So, the first thing that I noticed has to do with the general thematic elements of Ladybug and Chat Noir using their respective "gimmick" powers. Ladybug has the Miraculous of Creation, Chat Noir, the Miraculous of Destruction, and the composer(s) want to make sure we remember this.
Have a listen. Ladybug's Lucky Charm is first, then Chat Noir's Cataclysm. Notice how Ladybug gets the power guitar chords and heroic brass? Lucky Charm starts with the "Miraculous" lick (that will try very hard to earworm you with how much it shows up) and then proceeds in a progression that starts low and lands high? The kind of idea that gives you a feeling of triumph at the end? (I'll bet it's major chords the whole way up, but again, no formal musical training to know.) If you keep listening to that particular linked video, the "capture the akuma and reset everything" theme continues in this vein, although it starts high, drops down for the windup, and then gets back there and higher by the time the butterfly has been purified.
For Chat Noir, on the other hand, while the general pitch of Cataclysm goes up, it's a series of disparate chords on strings and percussion that all walk down from their initial pitch, and it ends on the Miraculous lick, almost as an afterthought to remind us that this is a hero using their power. (I have a sneaking suspicion each progression also lands on a minor chord, if they aren't all minors to start with.)
Why is this important? Well, for people trained in a European-descended musical tradition, major chords are for heroes, minor chords are for villains. Usually. Minor chords carry the power of transforming a situation into something that doesn't feel right and that deserves attention. Most of the "spooky/scary" type pieces, or songs that have a bridge in them where you realize that not everything in this song's world is a good thing (or that introduces an alternate point of view or interpretation) often use their minor chords to good effect. (Also, power ballads are mostly major chords, which is what makes them so singable and empowering, right?)
Chat Noir's Cataclysm is the power of destruction. That would normally be the province of the villain, and so he gets the scoring for it when he uses it.
These motifs of powers also figure into the transformation music for each of the characters as well. The next video, however, is spoiler city if you don't already know the secret identities of all the known Miraculous holders, just saying.
Take a listen through each of the transformation sequences in their Season 1 and 2 variations. Several of the "Alternate" marked variations are taken from the episode "Catalyst", which has some specific variations to itself. Season 1 is mostly scored differently, since it is Ladybug and Chat Noir doing the transforming.
I'll be talking about the themes in the order of the video, at least until they get to the animatic and Promotional Video versions, which are generally the same or are just the PV background theme.
- Ladybug: There's a few hits, but the theme itself really starts with the "windup" sound that happens right before launching into the dance beat / power chords variations on the Miraculous lick. (Which, by the way, anything that ends with the Miraculous lick is already primed for immediate segue into Lucky Charm, if it should ever be needed.) Most of the variations that you'l hear on this theme are related to key and speed of the song, but the basic version doesn't change.
- Chat Noir: I find it interesting that Chat Noir gets a quicker-tempo transformation theme. The beat pattern underneath it could be described as a gallop, as if Chat Noir just wants to get this transformation thing done and over with already.
alexseanchai has said that Adrien has been practicing for needing to do a transformation pose or two all his life, and the scoring definitely helps that idea along - he knows that you have to go through the motions, but he already has it down so well that he's ready to move on to the next thing.
But notice that Chat's guitar sounds different (possibly from being strung with a different materials), but also that when the five-note sequences happen, they end lower than when they started, and I suspect they're on minor chords again. Heroic instruments moving in a hero direction, but punctuated with the fact that his power would be very easy to turn villanous. (And Chat Noir ends up getting depicted or controlled to villainy much more than Marinette does, to make it easy for us to see how his powers could go terribly wrong in the wrong hands.) Chat's variations are like Ladybug's - they change tempo and maybe key a bit, but they basically stay the same. - Rena Rouge: Of course there's a flute in the background playing arpeggios, because that's her weapon of choice, but what's interesting about this is that Rena Rouge's pattern sounds like it should be straightforward to understand. It's not Ladybug's dance-pop, Chat Noir's happy trip-hop, or Carapace's scratch-funk (or his "Ninja Turtles" style). And really, most of it is the same variation on the "Miraculous" lick with a key change. Which is funny, because Rena's got the power of illusions at her command. It makes sense that her seemingly simple and straightforward theme hides a few tricks in the second part of her drum pattern. Queen Bee's beat pattern is the closest to Rena's that we get, but Queen Bee doesn't pick up the extra bass kicks that Rena does, which makes Rena's theme a more complex item to listen to on a second pass.
- Carapace: This one highlights the fact that Carapace's user is a scratch-heavy DJ, and so we get obviously synth instruments repeating a groove not out of place for any hip-hop emcee to rap over, as the character does a breakdance routine before pulling up a hood over their head to complete the look. It sounds out of place in the sense that it's not in the same genre or groove as the other themes around, but then again, this is also supposed to be the Tortoise Miraculous, so I think the composer is also having a little fun with us about how quickly tortoises move.
The Catalyst version above I see marked as the "alternate" version, since this is the second time Carapace transforms. The first transformation fits a little bit better thematically with the others, with a brass style that's almost a shout chorus over the beat. It really strongly reminds me of the idea of the first (not-comedic) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, that wants to invoke an action-movie feel in a reduced color-palette world. I'm not sure which version I like better, actually. - Queen Bee: Remember that part above with Chat Noir where I talk about descending musical lines, dissonance, a different guitar sound, and leaning into the minor keys as generally signs that the character in question is not entirely heroic? Queen Bee basically takes that as her theme and owns it. (Unsurprising, given her civilian identity.) The clues to her being on the side of the heroes has much more to do with her instrumentation and that her piece is up-tempo rather than anything that has to do with the notes played. (I really wonder what her transformation song would sound like with the guitar riffs reversed.)
Also interestingly, her transformation theme is the only one with deliberate silence in the drums instead of a break or a fill at the transition point between theme and ending lick, and it's that break that throws me off. I'm used to expecting the silence at the midpoint of a theme, as a transition before the theme repeats, but in Queen Bee's case, it's used as the transition to the outro, and that makes it feel shorter than the others, because the others use drum fills or changes to signal their shifts to the outro. Yes, even Hawkmoth. And speaking thereof... - Hawkmoth: Note the heavy drums, the organ, and the choir hits? Classic villain scoring. And a whole mess of minor and dissonant material, I'm betting, too. He's scored unmistakably as an evil dude, and also as a Big Bad type of person, rather than a less powerful villain. (This is variation three, the ":Catalyst" scoring on Hawk Moth, and I think it's the one that works best for him, as the others don't quite find their footing appropriately to express to someone who doesn't know who Hawk Moth is that he's a Bad Guy. For example, this variation has the disturbing organ part down, but it lacks the drums and the choir hits for emphasis.)
- It will be interesting to hear how the Peacock Miraculous scores for transformation when it's used and who it's used by. Given that we don't yet have that (at least as of the time of this post), I guess we'll have to wait for something else.
Anyway, that's my un-music-theoried thoughts about the use of licks and motifs in Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Chat Noir. The reality is probably very different than what I've laid out here. *shrug*
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Date: 2019-01-30 07:05 am (UTC)now to listen and figure out if I can actually pick out any of the bits you point out
ETA: mostly!
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Date: 2019-01-30 05:23 pm (UTC)Also, I'm not sure what proper procedure is for actually doing such a self-promo in a community.
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Date: 2019-01-30 10:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-30 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-30 09:16 am (UTC)Anyhow, one day about a year ago I *had* to know if Pearl Jam ripped off Elton John for one song I liked so managed to look up the sheet music online and do comparisons before realizing I could just google the question for the answer (they didn't, and yes, sometimes my brain works this inefficiently). But comparing the sheet music, they came rather close.
It was sort of fun listening to the songs in question while reading the sheet music so I'd recommend trying it to others who want to get a little further with any sort of music exploration.
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Date: 2019-01-30 04:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-31 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-31 04:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-13 04:11 am (UTC)I cannot *wait* to find out what the peacock miraculous gets as a connected transformation sequence, though admittedly I'm also a little nervous...? I'm swiftly becoming a big fan of Duusu, and I'm loving the powers we've glimpsed for the peacock. I have a lapful of headcanon for Duusu's character (ahem, bad me, I know) so I'm reeeeeally hoping my initial warm fuzzy impressions last... My ideal transformation theme for this particular miraculous would be... if you've ever heard "Not Alone" by Olive, the opening to that song comes close. Someone once described it as twirly goth. Relatively up tempo, a hip hop beat on the edge of dance, and minor chords again, but wistful, not evil.
Anybody else curious what Sass's theme might be, if he ends up active outside the miracle box? I hope they don't play too heavily on the slithery nature of snakes thing...
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Date: 2019-02-13 05:49 am (UTC)I hear what you're getting at with "Not Alone". (At least, I'm guessing you mean the bits that play underneath the choruses? If not, I might need a specific link to hear the right riff.
I think the theme scoring will depend on who ends up with the properly functional Miraculous. If it stays where I think it's going to, and that a previous user turns out to be so I think it is, I would expect a theme that is going to evoke, primarily, the idea of undying loyalty. Not necessarily with romantic love attached, either. I'm not sure how that would work, but I wouldn't be surprised if that one went for four on the floor as the beat pattern.
Even though they're not related as species, I wouldn't be surprised if whichever one of Carapace's themes that doesn't become the "official" one gets recycled to use for Sass. Either of them would fit.
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Date: 2019-02-13 07:14 am (UTC)This avoiding spoilerific commenting thing is darn tricky! And the above musing turned into half a self-insert at speed. Whoops.
I can see a variation close to Carapace's theme, if not a complete match, working for Sass powering a transformation. Then again, Sass read as a bit snarky and less introspective and mellow than Wayzz, so a more upbeat theme could be part of the difference. Some of it may well depend on who his chosen turns out to be, see also Rena Rouge and the flute, Carapace as a scratch DJ, as you pointed out above.
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Date: 2019-02-13 05:35 pm (UTC)No worries about self-inserts or fic ideas appearing in the middle of a comment. It happens.
Yeah, the person chosen will likely influence the scoring. Right now, I can see the original Carapace theme going to Sass, with the "Catalyst" version staying with Carapace. I also have a suspicion that would be the case because I have a feeling who would end up with the Snake Miraculous, but that's me reading clues that don't exist.
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Date: 2019-02-14 02:36 am (UTC)We're talking subtle circles around all the names here, aren't we? XD
Now I'm darn curious who you think's going to end up Sass's chosen! The closest fit I can come up with is honestly probably a better fit for a dragon kwami, and the likely suspect given the usual snake tropes doesn't fit with Sass; he doesn't seem like a jerk, where the most slimy slithery of the possibilities reeeeeeally is. I'm betting the slithery possibility is *not* going to end up with a miraculous anyway. That evil ship has sailed.
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Date: 2019-02-14 04:26 am (UTC)Re the rest of it: ooooh. :D
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Date: 2019-02-14 04:41 am (UTC)I think the snake wielder is someone whose personality traits would get them sorted into Slytherin, being ambitious, competitive, and interested in art forms that are usually transgressive when found in the wild. You might be thinking of them as more dragon-appropriate, and I wouldn't say no to that, but if I were going to give out a dragon Miraculous, I'd give it to someone who is fire-breathingly protective of the things (or people) in their care.
Clear as mud?
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Date: 2019-02-14 06:41 am (UTC)Re situations: Or if Hawkmoth otherwise harmed Paon Bleu's family, or came close to doing so, with or without powers in play. I can absolutely see Paon Bleu and Duusu stepping in then, perhaps more than once, without a flinch from either. And Hawkmoth may not be entirely without compassion, but there's little denying he's both capable of great cruelty and in possession of a quick, cold-burning temper. Make of that what you will.
My burgeoning headcanon of Paon Bleu as battered but unbroken night-flyer is getting aaaaaall the heck over these comments. Oops.
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Date: 2019-02-14 03:12 pm (UTC)Definitely not denying that Hawk Moth is capable of all of those thing, as there's more than enough demonstration of cruelty and temperament in what we've seen. Mayuri suggests that the compassion potentially extends past the immediate family. Or, perhaps, that either Mayuri is seen as family. Or it could be that Hawk Moth needs Mayuri to help make sure plans go well and are thought out enough that they pass the five year-old test on be Evil Overlord List.
Paon Bleu as a night flyer makes as much sense as any other headcanon, given how little we know about the Miraculous and how it came to its current state.
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Date: 2019-02-15 04:15 am (UTC)I just need to darn well DM you or something, eh? :)
Re Mayura: I'm going with a little from column B, a little from column C here. Mayura/Catalyst is something like family, but also clearly an aspect in Hawkmoth's plans... if not as Mayura. And I wonder if the line between appreciation of devotion and affection... may not register as clearly for Hawkmoth as it might for other people? That'd mark a difference between he and Paon Bleu, at least as I imagine them, and oooooh would that cause a rift at speed once the difference was plain. Situations, again.
Re Paon Bleu the night-flying protector: See my journal, now that I've seen the newest canon episode. FLAILing! It still fits. The entry immediately before my flail fest... is just me being a nerd who loves what words do sometimes. *slightly sheepish, which is in itself a win*
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Date: 2019-02-15 02:03 pm (UTC)As for Mayura, are we both suggesting that Catalyst's loyalty to Hawk Moth might be something more than duty and wanting to get a job well done? Although I don't necessarily see it as generating a rift between Paon Bleu and Hawk Moth, unless it were the kind of thing where Hawk Moth only ever showed appreciation for Catalyst, and that doesn't match up with what my impression of Hawk Moth is, in relation to who he thinks of as family.
I'm not caught up yet, but am episode where we get to see more of the mysterious circumstances and what brought them about will be useful.
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Date: 2019-02-15 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-02-16 07:37 am (UTC)So we might all be right about where Sass goes, depending on the episode and what Sass's power set is. Same for any dragons that come by.
I think we're agreed, as you mentioned, that Catalyst and Paon Bleu can coexist to Hawkmoth, if perhaps in different roles. I also see Catalyst as being someone who won't lie if directly questioned, but the question has to be phrased and delivered correctly or Catalyst will tell a truth without telling the truth about her feelings. She had the opportunity in Mayura, but the question was asked incorrectly and Catalyst read Hawkmoth correctly about what answer he wanted.
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Date: 2019-06-10 02:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-06-10 02:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-06-10 04:49 am (UTC)Since we don't have a whole lot of those transformations to written with, I can't say there's a pattern, but in both water and ice forms that we can see, Ladybug's theme is significantly slower and closer in instrumentation to Rena Rouge. Chat's ice form is also slower and mellowed out. An interesting musical decision to make extra forms less amped than the originals.
Of course, it could also be that there's only a limited amount of music available that's been scored and recorded, and so the trick is finding variations to use.
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Date: 2019-09-03 08:25 pm (UTC)*big pleading eyes*
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Date: 2019-09-04 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-04 04:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-04 05:17 am (UTC)So that's Roi Singe, Ryuko, and Mayura's full sequence to work with so far. And there's something to be said about the M. Bug and Mlle. Noir sequences, too, although their audio parts are not new. Something about body language and animation decisions in those.
So, new post?
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Date: 2019-09-04 05:18 am (UTC)so it is the same audio, I wasn't imagining it? or is it almost the same audio and I didn't pick up any crossover?
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Date: 2019-09-04 06:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-04-21 02:03 am (UTC)official channel probably will not deded. twenty transformation videos. Lucky Charm, and I'm having trouble finding an official-channel clip with Cataclysm in but the audio for both is here unofficially
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Date: 2020-05-20 05:54 pm (UTC)