Question for the Commentariat.

[silveradept]

Please answer the following two-parter, if you feel comfortable doing so.

(a) Have you successfully resolved the existential crisis of not only mortal life, but the likelihood that you and what you do will be essentially meaningless in the history of the cosmos?

(b) If so, please let me know your solution and its reasons. If not, please let me know where your difficulties are.

I'm still wrestling this one, and I have yet to find an acceptable answer in either religion or philosophy. A TARDIS and/or the ability to see what the post-life experience is like, remember it, return to life, and then evaluate by that standard is about as far as I've gotten for acceptable outcomes. I'm sure there has to be at least one that will click and fill the void of being able to conceptualize oneself in cosmic terms.

Comments

[milkymoon]

I don't know if I've successfully resolved it or not, but I'm an existentialist, and believe that even if life in itself is inherently meaningless, it's up to me to create my own meaning, as someone who is sentient and has that capacity. I can't exert influence over the entire universe, but I can over my little bit of it, and...that's comforting, in its own way? But maybe it's just me trying to meaninglessly wrest some control over my inevitable ending. As far as longer-term things go, I'll just be 'reincarnated' as other forms of matter until the universe ends, and...knowing that I'll still be a bit of the universe gives me a bit of comfort? Admittedly, it's really, really hard to deal with, but...it's something that I've learnt to cope with.

[silveradept]

Coping is good. That avenue often comes with a "and you, even in your monkeysphere, are meaningless and will be forgotten, so try however much you like, you're still going to be gone within a couple generations." which makes this particular method of cope a little more personally difficult. It's still a good answer.

[adeliej]

I also don't know if I've successfully resolved it or not. Similar to the above, I've ended up with the "Well, I have to create my own meaning then." I suppose I end up with the conclusion that if there is meaning to the universe, then I should live my life out well, and if there isn't - well, I'll still try to enjoy myself. I can understand how religion would help with this one, but I just can't muster the necessary faith. Sometimes I think I'm having a mid-life crisis twenty years early.

[silveradept]

That is sort of the feeling involved, isn't it? And there's always "pretend that it doesn't matter" or "put it off until later", but really, I like my big questions to have resolution, or at least a plan of action. The ones just hanging out there? They gnaw on my psyche.

[adeliej]

I think I know what you mean. It feels like I've just started thinking about this sort of thing, so they've started gnawing... (Now that you've said that, I'm picturing mini domokuns.)

[silveradept]

They eventually grow into full-sized domokuns if they're left to gnaw long enough. And sometimes they drive us to make blog posts asking how other people handle it.

[adeliej]

There is something I just thought of - that being "things that give me comfort for this sort of thing". One of the major ones is reading poetry - recently quite a lot of Mary Oliver, specifically her "Wild Geese" and "When Death Comes" (I also love "Aunt Leaf", but that's not so much the existential question). It helps.

[hebinekohime]

I can't answer that question as phrased, but I can give you my equivalent answer. ;)

To me, the point is not to resolve existential crises, but to listen to what they're saying. As a transhumanist, I don't believe in the problem of death without a corresponding solution to the problem. Immortality is a thought that's been on the human mind since our beginnings... once we became fully aware of death, evolution started to take a different turn, because some of its pieces became hip to the game. Therefore, I think immortality is inevitable. And even if I'm wrong, I want to see where and what that thought leads us to.

As far as meaning, one could argue that our purpose in life is to bring meaning(s) into the universe; perhaps we are already the Monolith, or the Monolith is one aspect of us.

[silveradept]

Eh, the Monolith? What be this.

Also, I like the idea that existential crises are the indicators of a large problem that requires solving. It certainly spurs toward action rather than paralysis. I'll file that one away as a possible solution.

[hebinekohime]

Eh, the Monolith? What be this.

Sorry, that was my attempt at a 2001 reference. n.n The Monolith was the alien intelligence/prime mover/cosmic Macguffin from the movie.

[silveradept]

Oh. Having not actually seen that movie, it makes sense that I would miss the reference. Still, "Hear, oh HAL, the Monolith, your $DEITY, the Monolith is one." isn't a bad idea by any stretch.

[kaptainvon]

Like fascination and adeliej, I come down on the side of making my own meanings. They don't have to outlast me, but if they provide some transient amusement, some temporary edification, that'll do - and if someone even one generation removed from me says "that Von, he knew what he was talking about", I'm calling that a win. What worries me is that I wrong or wound someone within my lifetime, not that I leave something beyond it; what entitles me to ask for that? It is a vast and uncaring universe and I am not the protagonist of its story - just part of its ensemble of billions.

I suppose I haven't so much resolved it as resigned myself to it.

[silveradept]

Resignation seems like the wrong idea to me, mostly because my psyche has issues with anything associated with "defeat" on matters of the intellect. Although, you do raise a good point in being more concerned about wounding someone in this lifetime.

[kaptainvon]

I see where you're coming from, though I don't count refusing to fight an unwinnable battle against an ineffable foe as a defeat - quite the opposite, in fact, a victory for common sense and priority management. Sometimes, the only way to win is not to play.

[silveradept]

Quite. Hopefully, I don't need to play a million games of Tic-Tac-Toe against myself to figure that out.

[axelrod]

~I'm an existentialist ...

~ ... but I'm not sure how much of that is The Crazy (I see depression as being a point of view, not an emotion), coupled with atheist-toward-the-god-I-was-raised-with and how much of that is actually me. And I've started going to a UU church and I went to an excellent interfaith service yesterday evening and I haven't given up on paganism and I'm very interested in Buddhism and Daoism. So who knows where I'll end up.

~Even if we're objectively insignificant, we are the center of our subjective universes and incredibly important in the universes of at least a handful of other people. Our happiness and their happiness matters.

~Sometimes, it's a comfort to remember that I'm insignificant - my mistakes will matter scarcely at all, even in the context of my community and human society.

~I'm still terrified of dying and suffering is depressing because usually there's no point to it; we can create purpose for our suffering, if the conditions are right, but that doesn't mean we should be grateful for it ...

~ ... though some Buddhist and other perspectives hold that moments of pain are incredibly valuable which ... I think can be problematic. *shrug* I'm not looking for easy answers, and I'm not looking in places where the answers are easy.

[scribe-of-stars.livejournal.com]

1. Yes.

2. By adopting the cosmos's view of things--that is, "Who gives a damn?"

[silveradept]

Simple and straightforward. And resolves nicely. Certainly a worthy contender.

[songtocecilia.livejournal.com]

I'm no philosopher, but I'd like to think I've come to terms with my life's utter insignificance in the face of the cosmos. Every now and then I get a feeling of disorientation, though, realizing that I could do anything and in the grand scheme of things it wouldn't matter.
I am anti-religious (I hate to put it that way, but I really do think it causes more harm than good), but the way I see it, it's kind of liberating. It's okay to make mistakes--they don't matter overall. You make your own meaning in life. Whatever makes you happy, keeps you alive and well, is what you should strive for. And who knows what awaits us after death? Personally I think it'll be like unconsciousness, only forever, but one never knows. If there is a reckoning to be had at the end, I'd like to be able to say, "I lived my life as I saw fit, and tried to be the best person I could based on my own standards. I was true to myself. If this offended you, I'm sorry." I hold reason and logic very high on my scale of worthiness, but also compassion and courage. If there is a god, and it doesn't like that I've chosen reason over faith, I honestly don't care. It was my choice, and I'd make it again. I would rather be in "hell" with most of the great scientists and artists of all time than go to heaven without them.
Oh, but I think I'm digressing. What I mean to say is, try to find fulfillment in real life, whatever does it for you. Natural beauty, family (oh, wait, I seem to recall you saying your family wasn't very congenial), art, music, science, politics... one can easily fill a lifetime, several lifetimes, exploring and experiencing the Earth.
But in the end, I suppose many people look back and wish they had done something "more" with their life, something worth remembering. But I think as long as you are remembered by friends and loved ones, that's enough. I think people especially feel like time spent at work, particularly mindless sorts of jobs, is wasted time. But I don't think any job is truly a waste of time. You're doing something to improve people's lives. And there are, after all, many jobs to choose from. Asimov predicted that one day robots would be doing all of the messy, boring jobs that humans don't want to do, leaving humans to fill the more interesting careers (the population had fallen somewhat, though, too. I think right now a lot of people would be out of jobs altogether if robots came around).
Am I digressing again? I hope not. I think sharing things with other people is one of the most important things about life, but maybe that's just me, that happens to be what fulfills me. Some people might find solitary contemplation and discovery more rewarding. But we are social animals, after all, and I think we need each other. When I retire, I would like to look back and see that I made a difference in some children's lives, and furthered the cause of music (I'm training to be a music teacher/conductor). But different people have different goals.
Oh, I don't know what I'm saying any more. I hope something in here resonates with you. I always love reading your posts.

[silveradept]

Woreking in libraries, I too hope that I can see I made a difference in people's lives when I reach the end of the work life. I do think that sharing and learning together are wonderful things.

I think sometimes the crisis rears its head because all of the praise and life-changing things that may have been said about me do not actually reach my ears, and thus, lacking evidence that I am making a difference, the conclusion that remains is that I am not. Which is depressing.

So thank you for saying you like to read what I have to write.

[catnamedrabbit.livejournal.com]

1) Yeah. I am but a tiny miniscule blip in the vast history of the cosmos. I am essentially a nothing. I am actually reminded of a (paraphrased) quote from the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy is that because the amount of life in the universe is so small when compared to the vastness of the universe, life was essentially zero.

2) However I have come to the conclusion that the vastness of the universe compared to myself doesn't matter. It's the other people whom I share this life with. Consider this, it is only through the eyes and mouths of a human being are we remembered. The human experience can only be experienced by a human. The trees won't remember us when we are gone. The dogs and cats and birds and fish and other fauna won't remember us when we are gone. It is only the people whom we touch that will remember us.

Ask yourself, how will people remember you at your funeral? What would they say about you? Would they recount the joyful, exuberant, playful things you have done? would they expouse your kindness? Would they tell their children stories about you?

I am also reminded and comforted about my existence from a scene in from watchmen ( comic or movie doesn't matter). It's when Laurie and Jon are on mars, just after Laurie realizes who her father was... Jon says something to the effect of " I've longed to see an oxygen molecule turn to gold, but you were distilled in such a perfect form from all that chaos... that is a miracle."

Apologies for butchering the quote, and not providing more context ( seriously go read the comic if you havent!)... but that moment sits with me and shows me that while my life in the context of the vastness of the cosmic history of everything doesn't matter.. it's that i am here anyway. I exist, i think and feel and even if it is all a lie and were are but mere puppets or holograms or just various bits of mass put together... my experience is still my own to cherish, to enjoy and to hold dear.

I experience something the vast cosmos has no idea about.

I feel.

[silveradept]

I have, on occasion, considered asking, on my anniversary of birth, for people to write what they would speak at my funeral, so that I may have the wisdom of their words while I am still alive to appreciate them. I would hope they spoke well of me.

I have read Watchmen, and I recognize the right area where the quote and style comes from.

The path you propose can be difficult, when one feels that there isn't much worthwhile in the life right now, often because there's no feedback that proves it is. With a poor self-image, it can be hard to convince yourself that your existence is sufficient.

[catnamedrabbit.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I'm speaking from my experience which includes knowing what it is like to feel completely worthless, and both consciously and unconsciously getting fed up with the meaninglessness of my life.

.. no i can't teach anybody this life altering point, it's just something they have to experience themselves in their lives in order for the path i have proposed to pose as anything more then an obstacle.

But I will tell you anyway and to all those who listen. Clairity comes the moment you realize that you cannot rely on external feedback to find your meaning. The human experience is a personal thing. It is only through your eyes and your feelings can you create anything with meaning within the context of yourself. The outside, the cosmos isn't going to tell you that...

... it's a little bit of personal responsibility to create your own context. This is where I fit, I say.

And it may very well be that the path i take to find out my place in the cosmos, if i have one, is entirely and completely unique to myself.

But I don't think I was ever one to let difficulty be an obstacle. God. Meet unmovable rock. ^_^

[rimspace.livejournal.com]

What is the storm without the raindrops? What is the music without the notes?

[silveradept]

One time, I tried to sing / about spring, and a storm. But you know... / how it goes...

[rimspace.livejournal.com]

So, perhaps I was too Vorlon...

We occupy a peculiar position in the universe, the gift and curse of self-awareness and mortality that inevitably pushes us to debate the implications of existence. Truly grasping our infinitesimal position in the universe, dragged inexorably and irredeemably along the river of time, seemingly unable to effect the changes we desire... existential uncertainty and distress is virtually inescapable for any sufficiently thoughtful individual.

But consider, if you will, the implications of my questions. I do not claim them to be overly comforting, but they offer part of an answer. We are each here, now, whether the result of the spinning of the Fates, or a nigh-incomprehensible chain of near impossible events. Imagine, for a moment, what it would be like if we were not: perhaps another would be in our place, another raindrop hurtling from cloud to ground, another note in the vast symphony of the universe. Perhaps there would not; and what then, if all were the same?

There would be no storm, there would be no music.

We are, at the same time, infinitely vital, and apparently expendable: another of the wonderful dichotomies that permeates every aspect of existence. But the fact that we are here, the fact that I can write this, and you can read it, compels us to face this most remarkable conundrum: if we exist, we are part of something vast beyond our full comprehension, a tapestry of existence whose very weave is the universe around us. We each have a role, a place, a voice in the music - no matter how tiny, and if removed everything would be changed, even if only imperceptibly. We also live in a chaotic, emergent reality, one where even the tiniest change can have long-term, dramatic ramifications - there is no guarantee that your existence is the flapping of butterfly wings that will create the storm of tomorrow... but, by the same token, it might be. We touch the lives of those around us, making lives better or worse, whether we realise it or not. We are inextricably linked in often surprising and subtle ways, and who we are is as much a product of our interactions as any other factor.

This is the essence of the strange, fleeting thing that is living: we change the world simply by existing, perhaps not the grand sweeping changes of the idealist or fundamentalist, but change none the less. There may be an infinite army of potential, unrealised replacements for us drifting beneath probabilities of the quantum foam, but they do not matter: what matters is that you are you, that you are here, and that you are part of something indescribably grand and special.

That you are a note in the music, a voice in the song, a raindrop in the storm.

[silveradept]

I think I understood the implications of what you said, and tried to be a little bit Vorlon-esque in response, because that particular song seemed appropriate, about all the little things going through their natural cycle and how sometimes it can be tough to appreciate that.

But hearing you say it in the long form is helpful as well. The fact that I exist causes changes, hopefully for the better, that's helpful. But the crux of the matter often seems to be a lack of feedback about how those choices affect people. In the case of butterfly wings, it may be several generations worth of time before the effects manifest...which is problematic when you're a species with a limited lifespan. We'd like to see results in our lifetimes for justification, even if we're building something that might ring once every ten thousand years or so.

Stupid mortality. Makes everything that much more wonderful and beautiful, but also the reminder that the ride must stop at some point. But I suppose most deals have to have upsides and downsides.