It's All Up To Me, I Guess.

[silveradept]

Sevral things make a frustrated library dragon. So, a large amount of associated hot takes and likely complaints. Let's start with the obvious:

• The library will never be silent.

And, again, for those in the back who have not internalized this reality:

• THE LIBRARY WILL NEVER BE SILENT!

Also:


• Socialization is a valid use of the library.

When I get complaints about how the noise is too much in the library, there's always a part of me that wants to yell that back at them repeatedly until they give up or accept their new reality. With a ballot issue nearby, there are people who also say that they support us, but they might change their mind because of things like "it's a playground for teenagers," "the library isn't a place for hanging out," or "the library should be quiet." The thing I want to tell those people is "Get stuffed. The library is for everyone, and that includes people who you think don't belong here or are using it for purposes you don't like." What I want to believe is that we don't need those votes. But we probably do. And besides, I'm not allowed to tell our users what my opinions are of them like that. It's bad customer service.


• Teenagers are valid users of the library.

Which should go without saying, but ugh, there's so much going around them, because they're teenagers and teenagers tend to draw attention to themselves by being themselves. The sort of thing where a group of young (Black) men heading to the bathroom is suspicious in ways that groups of young women isn't. But also the part where my library is an acoustic disaster that makes small groups of people having a normal conversation sound loud, and a big group of people having a normal conversation sound incredibly loud. And that the teen section is adjacent to what is supposed to be the quiet reading lounge. And that the library is situated in a city that has no place for teens to hang out, outside of school and home, that doesn't cost money. Except the library. And that removed the tables and chairs from the place that was supposed to be a hangout and social space because, heaven forfend, teenagers were using it to be social and hang out. And that wants to block off entry to that space in the morning from the coffee shop, before they want to open the space, because there are people who are experiencing homelessness who want to use that space as a warm place to be before the library opens. Because it looks bad for the city. So, to put it mildly, the city believes teenagers aren't welcome until they become taxpaying adults. Given the prevalence of gated communities in the city, this, I suppose, isn't surprising, but it really is a pain that there aren't more places for our teens to go.

It also doesn't help when, despite this reality, you have people that you work with whose attitudes mirror the city around them. I suppose it's too much to expect, but I think it's reasonable to say that while youth services and adult services are indicators of specialization and expertise, that all of the staff are involved in making sure all of our audiences have a good experience at the library. This is not a shared idea. A suggestion that we could use our meeting room space as overflow on days where the teens are released early from school, and possibly put a game system in there to have them able to do something while they're there (as opposed to there being a giant amount of teens in the teen area all at once) was meet with "I'm not taking a shift babysitting them in there" from one of my adult services coworkers, and an accusation of how it "wasn't fair" to create programs and then leave them for others to do, and that it would be taking away valuable meeting room space from members of the community that might want to use it. Which, y'know, I'm willing to do the thing, but right now, I'm not there during early release because of things that were decided above my pay grade. Yet, I would have thought the idea of trying to keep what they already identify as a problem more contained and possibly better handled would be a thing they'd like to participate in, but no, apparently, if it's a thing that I'm proposing as a possible solution, I'm signing up to do it. Myself. Because nobody else wants to. And isn't providing any suggestions of their own.

It doesn't help things at all that it's a primarily white staff and our regulars are primarily teens of color. Who have, y'know, taken to filming interactions with staff. And that have asked if we have cameras, so that we can pinpoint the people who are misbehaving, rather than working in broad brush strokes. Perhaps a useful solution to the issue might be to put a staff person in the teen area? But that would mean having to be there in the area, and possibly even get to know everyone and see who's there. And to spare staff for what seems to be nothing more than babysitting exercises, in the hope that it might prevent further problems and bad interactions.

Admittedly, all of that is subject to the rules of behavior, so no, there's no acceptance of people shouting the F-word or behaving like terrible people toward each other, but there should also be as much comes-down-hard on people who believe they have the right to do something about our teenagers because the staff isn't doing things to their satisfaction. But, it generally seems to be the tack that if a user's getting involved, it's because we were too lenient with the teenagers, and I don't really believe that's been the case. (The teens don't help sometimes, because they tend to respond to a threat like it's a threat and escalate.)

Perhaps I'm miscalibrated in terms of what an appropriate response is, and, based on how everyone else on staff behaves, there's the probability that I'm too lenient with what goes on with regard to teenage behavior. I would just like some help, or perhaps even just a staff that thinks that working will all of our audiences is something all of our staff wants to do.

But if that's a thing that I want to do, or see happen, I guess I have to do it. Myself.

Comments

[alexseanchai]

...I am reminded of the thing where:

Hets: "If you want to see more gays in fiction, write it yourself!"

Gays: *write gay fiction*

Hets: "What is all this gay shit?"

:(

[silveradept]

Very much so. Doing more for teens might bring more teens, which is the thing they don't seem to want. But they're no other place to be, so the result seems to be that we get feral teens instead, driven out by an attitude that expects them to behave against who they are if they want continued access.

[lilysea]

Aaaargh.

If only the library could put on teen programming, like "learn to make computer games".

Or get a community arts group to get teens to spray paint a mural on the outside of the library.

Or build a skate park/basketball court next to the libary.

Or...

[silveradept]

The Organization doesn't like doing programs where people have to attend every session, because it's hard to do that, but when we've had programs like game design, they've been decently attended.

The city building the library is housed in has mural space, but good luck convincing the city to commission that kind of art.

There is a skate park in the city, and it's an open-air spot twenty minutes away by skateboard. Unsurprisingly, we tend to get more teens in the building when the weather is terrible, like it is now. There's also no room to build closer, because the fit wants the library in the middle of a downtown economic area, so it's all apartments and storefronts on the blocks.

All of these are great solutions, though, and they could all work out with the right support.

[conuly]

Are the teens filming as a matter of course, or because relations between teens and staff are just THAT BAD?

[azurelunatic]

Pretty bad.

[silveradept]

That bad, because when you can't get someone to the site of the problem far enough, there tends to be collective justice meted out, which is no good, and also because there have been plenty of staff interactions beforehand where the staff have been / are jerkishly parental about it. (I'm contributing to this prescription, too, I think, even if I'm trying not to.)

[wohali]

Is there anywhere one can go (that's a public space) where you can have quiet? Or is the norm these days "noise-cancelling headphones?"

I can't focus even with music I like playing; your library sounds like hell for me if I had to use it for studying or work.

[silveradept]

We have quiet study rooms that are enclosed and on the opposite side of the library as the children and teen sections, but we only have two and they're in high demand. We also have bigger gathering spaces, but they have to be reserved.

Out on the floor itself, though, the acoustics are pretty awful and any one group bring louder than ambient carries quite well to everywhere else.

[wohali]

Ah, that's good to know, but unfortunate they're so limited in availability.

Sounds like a building design problem. Can any sort of baffling be installed? I know, I know, that'd cost actual money the system probably doesn't have...just curious whether it'd even be possible.

[silveradept]

There's some baffling in the teen area, as well as these curves that were supposed to reflect sound back down into the area, but don't actually seem to be doing anything of the sort.

What complicates this is that the back of the library, where the ten area is, has soaringly high ceiling space compared to the front, so solutions meant to disperse sound first have to contend with all the cavernous space that it can bounce around in.

[marahmarie]

I'm envisioning long poles with acoustic tiles hanging off their tips to - absorb sound, I think, though maybe those work the opposite way - maybe that's not the right answer. Makes me want to look into it more, though.

(I'm easily distracted myself, including by, as another has said, my own music, at least some of the time, and will get not just distracted but downright irritated by things like loud TV or voices, even if I'm not trying to focus hard or necessarily seeking all that much peace and quiet.)

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

If an environment doesn't meet people's needs, they won't use it. If people have conflicting needs, they'll either keep fighting about that or drive someone out. Not great if you want to serve a wide crowd.

I'm all in favor of teenagers in libraries. But I also want libraries to be quiet. They used to be. Now they're downright noisy, most of them, and it's not teens. It's machinery. Tap-clack beep-whir buzz-ring ... fuck it. I used to love libraries, but most of them today are not aimed at my needs. :/

So if your patrons are squabbling, I'd look at the infrastructure. Can space be divided for quiet study, lounging, small-group study, and socializing? Can different ages be given their own space? Many libraries do these things to minimize conflicts, and it helps.

If you have those and people are bitching anyway, it's more likely their problem than yours.

Re: Well ...

[silveradept]

There are divisions of space built into the design, but none of them are fully enclosed, and the acoustics of the building seemed designed for resonance rather than dampening.

It isn't helping that the loud spaces are situated right next to the nominally quiet spaces, either. Group space, quiet reading space, and the children and teen areas are all next to each other, and there's no sound redirection or barriers to absorb or muffle the loud before it gets to the quiet.

Re: Well ...

[sonia]

Sounds like heavy curtains between spaces and acoustic damping tile on the ceilings and walls might help. (But that costs money.)

Also, sympathies for the ongoing struggles and feeling like your priorities to serve patrons aren't supported by your coworkers and bosses.

Re: Well ...

[silveradept]

Curtains would help, but they would block sight even more than it already is, and staff would be even less in favor of anything that reduced sight (because we have mischief makers and many of the groups generate a fair amount of mess), and damping tile theoretically was supposed to help, when some of it was installed in the teen area walls, and the ceiling is supposed to have archways and waves that reflect the sound back down...so we need heavier-duty sound control.

Sympathies are appreciated. I get annoyed when it's expected that youth services helps adult services, but the favor will not be returned when adult services can help in a youth services thing. (Some things, like story time, they can't help with, because they don't have the training.)

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> There are divisions of space built into the design, but none of them are fully enclosed, and the acoustics of the building seemed designed for resonance rather than dampening. <<

Well, that sucks. :( It's bad enough when people do that in restaurants, but in a library it's insane.

You might float the idea of renovation, because right now, libraries are struggling to survive and a poorly designed building can kill your chances. I'm sure none of the staff want that. If your patrons all hate the design too, you may have a non-zero chance of talking them into coughing up funds to fix it. With partial divisions, at least you've got a place to start -- you might not have to rip it down to the shell or get a new building.

However, there's a much cheaper, faster, and funner way to fix the resonance problem. Make a bunch of sound absorbing panels and hang them everywhere they'll fit. Cover them with library posters, old book dustjackets, local art, whatever you like.

You can also buy these, including ones with really snazzy designs, but that's probably more expensive:

https://www.audimute.com/soundproofing-acoustical-products

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-category/acoustic-panels/

Alternatively, you can just make them the same color as the walls/ceiling and they blend right in. Got metal shelves? Put acoustic panels over the ends, because that's a big part of resonance problems in many libraries. If you have handiworkers, you can build custom frames that match the shape and color, stick them on, put your signage back up, and hardly anyone will notice except that it's quieter.

Buffer the noisiest place(s) first and then work your way around to the rest.

If your library hangs art by local artists, ask if anyone would be willing to put egg-crate foam inside their canvas, which can then be marked on the artist card as "acoustic panel art.

>> It isn't helping that the loud spaces are situated right next to the nominally quiet spaces, either. Group space, quiet reading space, and the children and teen areas are all next to each other, and there's no sound redirection or barriers to absorb or muffle the loud before it gets to the quiet.<<

That's a disaster.

However, area designation is within library power to change, to the extent that areas have similar hardscaping. Mentally strip away the furnishings, paint, etc. that designate the audience and look only at stuff like window size and any built-in counters that can't be moved. Is that all the same size? You can change the contents of the room. Is one area hardscaped with smaller features for kids, or all-ADA for seniors? Leave that as your anchor and rotate other spaces around it. Usually only one or two parts of a building are hardscaped for a certain purpose -- in a house, the kitchen and bathroom, in a library it's often the lobby/circulation area and the children's room.

If you can move things, move them. Create a spectrum of louder to quieter places. There are products that can help muffle sound and divide space. While not as good as actual renovation, they're much more affordable and can help a lot.

https://www.soundproofcow.com/soundproof-a-space-restaurant-office/office-soundproofing/

https://www.soundproofcow.com/soundproof-a-space-restaurant-office/library-soundproofing/

https://www.quill.com/office-partitions-dividers/cbl/22004.html

https://www.wayfair.com/commercial/sb0/partitions-dividers-c432417.html

I know you're just one person and don't run the whole library, but these are ideas that could be pitched at staff meetings or dropped in a suggestion box. Probably everyone else is as frustrated as you are and would like to find solutions so patrons quit hackling at staff, each other, and the potted plants.

I wish you luck. I want libraries to survive as a public commons.

Re: Well ...

[silveradept]

That particular set of areas is really one large room, with divisions mostly accomplished by the presence of floor-affixed shelving, which does have covering over the ends. Further complicating, as you go toward the back of the space, the ceiling height increases dramatically to accommodate the large picture windows on the back side.

The competing issue to "put sound absorption everywhere," in addition to the high ceilings, is that any item that might prevent sight from the desk will encounter strong resistance, on the belief that people who can't be seen will act in improper ways. (There's already some blocked sight lines in place, but it encompasses a very small part of the library field of view.)

There really aren't that many places to anchor partitions to, and the space itself is already crowded, given that it was too small to start with. And nothing will happen that requires money until after the ballot issue gets decided.

A complete space redesign and movement of the shelving would be excellent. And possibly the only viable solution with regard to the other issues that appear when trying to stuff more things into am already crowded for area.

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

>> That particular set of areas is really one large room, with divisions mostly accomplished by the presence of floor-affixed shelving, which does have covering over the ends. Further complicating, as you go toward the back of the space, the ceiling height increases dramatically to accommodate the large picture windows on the back side.<<

Look in the catalogs for hanging panels and ceiling clouds. They're designed to solve echo problems in vaulted spaces. You don't need as much line-of-sight overhead as on the floor, just orient things so the light falls along them instead of across them. Some libraries have giant murals hanging overhead that way. Me, I think the clouds make a big vault look bigger, like a sky.

>> The competing issue to "put sound absorption everywhere," in addition to the high ceilings, is that any item that might prevent sight from the desk will encounter strong resistance, on the belief that people who can't be seen will act in improper ways. (There's already some blocked sight lines in place, but it encompasses a very small part of the library field of view.) <<

That's a people problem, not a space problem. 1) If your patrons are not trustworthy, you can try to work with them to improve that. 2) If your library is understaffed, that needs fixing anyway. You need enough volunteers or staff to keep an eye on the major regions of the library. Most of the libraries I've seen have a separate desk in the children's and teen rooms because those patrons haven't finished learning manners yet and need coaching.

Remind coworkers that if patrons routinely dislike your library, they will quit coming and/or vote against funding it, and you'll all wind up out of work. That would suck.

>> There really aren't that many places to anchor partitions to,<<

Look for the ones that are designed to turn open offices into divided offices. They have freestanding supports.

>> and the space itself is already crowded, given that it was too small to start with. <<

Nothing's going to fix that but hiving or moving. :/ Either divide the library across multiple buildings or get a whole new one. Both are enormously expensive.

However, you may be able to offload some of the traffic by identifying needs other than reading the actual books. Make a list of reasons people come to the library. For each reason, make a list of other places people can do that thing. Studying: list your library locations first, then say "Are they full? Try these ..." followed by coffeehouses, laundromats, community centers, etc. One of our local grocery stores has a study lounge upstairs from the bakery area. People buy pastries then go up there to eat and read.

>> And nothing will happen that requires money until after the ballot issue gets decided. <<

Which is unlikely to go in your favor if people dislike their library. :( I've seen that happen. Nobody's going to give money to anything they hate.

Some projects can be done on a smaller scale, though, and don't necessarily require dipping into the library budget. Talk to some crafty folks about rustling up funds to do some acoustic panels. Even a few in the corners can make a difference.

>> A complete space redesign and movement of the shelving would be excellent. And possibly the only viable solution with regard to the other issues that appear when trying to stuff more things into am already crowded for area <<

It's worth discussing.

Re: Well ...

[azurelunatic]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/skills-healthy-relationships/201606/stop-trying-fix-things-just-listen

Re: Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Listening and validation solve the problem of feeling unheard.

They won't solve the problem of a library that's too noisy to work in or otherwise poorly designed.

Since listening costs no cash, only time, it's a good solution to try first in cash-poor situations. Likely some library patrons are unhappy for this reason, so it may well reduce the problem by that margin. This is another thing that can be tried individually or batted around among staff to see who'd like to try it, rather than requiring management to get on board.

Re: Well ...

[azurelunatic]

You, specifically, are problem-solving in a scenario which calls for empathy.

Good day, madam.

Re: Well ...

[marahmarie]

Carpeting might also help. I'm reminded of that every day in our place, which had most of the carpeting ripped out and laminate put in its place (ignore me if the library's already mostly or fully carpeted). Carpet muffles noise quite well and is fairly quick, easy and cheap to install until something can be done about ceilings (another problem our place has and you're right, high ceilings combined with an open floor plan (ditto here) will increase noise exponentially).

Also (edit, based on a quick glance above right after posting) as at least one other poster's said I too am offering this in the same vein as others have of sharing ideas you can gather and share at say, the next meeting where Things That Can Be Done might be reasonably brought up for discussion, and I do empathize all the way, both as an avid reader who would want your library as peaceful and usable as you might desire it to be and as someone who wants to support you in your role as a librarian. I used to spend a lot of time in libraries, myself, and appreciate what they have to offer.

I just hope this isn't going to devolve into people attacking those of us on the thread offering up ideas, as it seems to have, already.

Re: Well ...

[silveradept]

There is carpeting, but it's over a slightly raised floor that contains all the cables and wires that we have in the space, so as to make it easy to reconfigure that part, should we desire to do so. (The shelves don't move nearly that readily, though.) So I don't know if it's net good or bad.