silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
[personal profile] silveradept
[Thinky-Thoughts are a perpetual beta thing. They invite comment and further discussion.]

So I wrote a thinky-thought about an article that talked about how school kills creativity impulses in children. [personal profile] bladespark took an issue with the conclusion, that we're very close to a death of creativity, with an empirical counterexample - creativity is in a much better place now than it has been before. Throw a stone anywhere, basically, and you'll find a lot of creative output.

It's an excellent point.

...but I feel like the two can co-exist, even though they're intertwined. And they can both be correct. So let's talk about some of the examples provided (and some other ones that I can think up), too.

  1. Just because we can measure things better doesn't mean the rates are changing. Which makes sense because we're in the middle of being able to understand a lot of other things a lot better - things like the autism spectrum didn't have names even a little while ago, within my lifetime. The mysteries of the universe and the mind are starting to unlock as we find new ways of seeing them. So if we're starting to discover that the way we do schooling crushes creativity, we shouldn't worry that things are falling apart.
  2. Beyond that, check out the sheer volume of STUFF! One corner of the Internet has millions (and MILLIONS) of users who clip right along in the hundreds of thousands of creative things per day. People can live their lives doing creative work easier than they could before. And that's just one corner of the Internet. So, (in a bit flippant way), cheer up, emo kid! We're doing great!


  3. The counter to that is trying to prove a negative. Much like the President, we can measure how things are good, how things are bad, but we really can't measure how bad things could have been or how good things would be if were weren't doing these things. You could argue the idea that the Internet being international means you can't claim all those people as products of the American school system, and the like, but even if you went all proportional and finessed the numbers to be more statistically accurate, you still find yourself staring down a large swath of creativity every day.

    More fruitfully, you could say that the explosion of creativity is because the bar is set so low these days - a person with technology and an Internet connection can share themselves with the world. Going that route, though, gets you into the discussion of whether creativity requires a minimum of success before you can count it. That's old-world thinking, though - Sturgeon's Law applies, sure, but if the bar is that you to have commercialized your work and/or make a living off of it, then a large swath of that very real creative explosion is erased. Going that route helps the position that schools are killing creativity by redirecting the insufficiently determined into some other profession or route. It's not a complete argument, though, because...
  4. Kids are more resilient than you think. I know this from experience. And that's where I think we can have two arguments running concurrently that cross over but don't disturb each other too much. Schools that crush creativity can be counteracted by extracurriculars that encourage it. The bottom of the social heap in society can be the idol of people that actually appreciate them and have a similar aesthetic.


Which brings us back to having to push for "what could be" if we weren't trying so very damn hard to crush that creative spark by insisting on Right and Wrong as the only two options in school. And if our work allowed us the freedom of creativity (within bounds) to do our work, instead of dictating to us what is Right and Wrong. And if our politics stopped trying to tell us that they were Right and the other side Wrong. We've built up a lot of things that depend on us accepting Right and Wrong as the only ways. So, we both end up being right - I'm pessimistic about our schools ever changing back to something that will teach us about thinking and problem-solving in creative ways, and encouraging creative expression, but [personal profile] bladespark is right that it's only part of the total picture - plenty of kids and adults are able to find an outlet for their creative expression anyway. After all, I'm one of them, as a never-going-to-be-famous blogger.
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-09-24 10:04 pm (UTC)
bladespark: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bladespark
"I'm pessimistic" is about all I agree with here, sadly.

Also, change "back" to teaching about thinking and problem-solving in creative ways? When did schools ever, anywhere, teach that? The current system is built on an older system of rote memorization that's even *less* creative than what we have now!

I still think things are looking up, not looking down!
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-09-24 11:15 pm (UTC)
tuzemi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tuzemi
I think of two things that might be applicable here.

First, I think of farming. Modern industrial farming methods have made the output of farming (food) more plentiful than ever, while reducing the actual numbers (both absolute and relative) of farmers. When we look at the Internet and the millions of people writing, making music, contributing mini-essays to community sites, crafting -- are we seeing people getting creative who never did before, or are we seeing the same people who would create elaborate family scrapbooks and practice hard to sing beautifully at church, who now spend a little less of their time doing those creative activities on the web? By making us all neighbors we seem to be in a sea of creative endeavors but maybe there are actually fewer people doing this than we think.

Second, I think of the difference between a culture of creativity and a lot of individually creative people. When I was growing up, no one knew how to break into the music business, but some managed to anyhow: I submit that these folks will stop trying to create only after their hearts stop, and no amount of negative culture can stop them. Witness the gorgeous architecture of the Muslim empires, whose artists were unable to directly depict religious figures. But outside these people is the larger culture and the question of will it encourage the rest of us to emulate them or will it push them out of the lands they were born in so that they all move to San Francisco to hone their craft?
Depth: 1

Date: 2012-09-24 11:25 pm (UTC)
nicki: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nicki
I don't believe schools are killing creativity, but I think the potential is there.

The problem is that our society has become a factory system. Everyone has to produce a consistent product, so everyone must do the exact same thing with the exact same resources in order to prevent a variation in product. So basically we get fast food quality products or higher-end chain restaurant quality, but being an Iron Chef in almost every industry (including the educational one) is systematically discouraged. Creativity lends itself well to neither measurability nor consistency.

(also, everything must be suitably bland and inoffensive so that no one's tummy gets too upset)

Freetime creativity, however, may be at a peak. Everyone has more access to free time and resources than probably ever before.
Depth: 3

Date: 2012-09-29 03:41 am (UTC)
nicki: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nicki
There are still art and creative classes that are not subject (as much) to the factory system, which is why I said education isn't killing creativity. However, those classes are less valued and less funded in many districts.

IMO creativity is part of humanity. If we ever lost it entirely, it would be an indication of changing into a new species.

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silveradept: A kodama with a trombone. The trombone is playing music, even though it is held in a rest position (Default)
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